Thursday, June 18, 2009

Generic Negotiation Skill challenge

Last post I said I was working on a tree based system for skill challenges. I have dropped it because it just proved too complicated for its own good. Instead this is a linear challenge, with each stage of the challenge representing a different aspect of the challenge.


This is a skill challenge that you should be able to use any time the the PC's need to ask a favor from an NPC in a position of power such as a city official or a member of the nobility. The format is the following.


Stage 1: First Impressions - This gives the PC a chance to use nearly any skill they can think of to command respect.

Stage 2: The Pitch - This is where the PC's explain what they want to happen

Stage 3: Why the NPC should care. - This is where the PC's explain why it is in the NPC's best interest to go along with the plan; it could be anything, from promises of fame to a sense of duty, to cold hard cash.

Stage 4: Offers and counter offers -The subject should ask for additional compensation for the favor. This stage represents haggling over price.

Stage 5: Lasting Impressions. - This is a chance for the PC's to make the subject happy about the deal which will help set the tone in further dealings with the PC’s.



Before you start the challenge, you need to determine the DC's. If you have combat stats for an NPC you can substitute many of the combat stats into the challenge. Most likely you will not have stats, and in that case, base your numbers on the updated values on page 42 of the DMG. If you don't want to mark up your DMG or your DM screen, just subtracting 6 from the DC's and don't boost the DC's for skill checks by five as described in the books. That will not yield the exact numbers of the new table but it should come within 0 and 2 points away at most.


Next determine the DC's. This skill challenge is fairly comprehensive, so many of the DC's will not be needed, but spending a couple of minutes coming up with ALL of the values before the skill challenge begins will make things go smoothly.


The Will DC: The difficulty to manipulate the subject. On an NPC with stats you can use the Will Defense

The Insight DC: The difficult to determine the NPCs intent. On an NPC with stats you can add their Insight skill level to 10.

The Fame DC: The difficulty to know about the NPCs history. This can be from easy DC(for a king) to hard DC (for a low city official).

The Extortion DC: The difficulty to know about the NPCs dark dealings that will allow him to be manipulated via extortion. This is usually a hard DC because there are two indipendent issues with extortion. The guy has to have done somthing wrong and if it was not a well kept secret it would not be worth extorting someone for it.

The Perception DC: The difficulty to hide actions from the subject. On an NPC with stats you can use passive perception.

The NPCs price to perform the requested task: This is the most difficult value to come up with. Don't sweat it, just make something up based on the personality of the NPC. For instance a meek city official who gets by with a few bribes here and there will ask for 100pg to look the other way when needed. An honest city official might only break at 1000 gp. Sometimes they will want the PC's to perform some action for them, make sure the tasks they ask PCs to do can be scaled back if the PCs negotiate a better deal.


Running the Skill challenge.

This skill challenge is broken up into stages. The challenge is only finished after the last stage is complete. Successes and failures at each stage have different results, and most failures do not allow progress to the next stage. Stage 4 is a bit special. Depending on the PC's this section can be succeed without any die rolls(if the PC's accept a high price), or can ran through twice or more to try to reduce the cost as much as possible). Secondary skills can be attempted at any time, they do not help the PC's progress through the stages, but rather they can help with skill rolls when attempting to pass stages. However failing a secondary skill check, does count as a failure, and thus should be used cautiously.

Primary Skills by Stage.

Stage 1: First Impressions.

Players are asked to describe how they are presenting themselves. This is a group check. Tally up the wins and fails if the group gets at least 50% successes vs Will DC, then the party gets a success.

Applicable skills:

Various - Each player in the skill challenge must pick a skill check that exemplifies the image the player wants to present.

DC: Will DC

Success: +1 on next skill check. Move to stage 2

Failure: -1 on next skill check. Move to stage 2

Stage 2: The players make the pitch.

Adjust the skill check roll according to what is asked of the subject. Assign a modifier as follows Easy +2, Medium 0, Hard -2, and Ridiculous -4.

Applicable skills:

Diplomacy - Will DC: This is the typical skill used. It represents an honest approach. This does not mean full disclosure, just not direct deception

Bluff - Insight DC: Use this if they are deceiving the NPC as to the intent of their actions.

Success: +1 on next skill check. Move to stage 3.

Failure: subject asks detailed question about pitch -1 on next skill check. Stay on stage 2.

If this is the third failure the subject's opinion of the group suffers a -2 for a month or more. The NPC thinks that the group are fools that have no idea what they are doing. The skill challenge ends.

Stage 3: The PC's explain what is in it for the NPC.

Bribery can be useful at this point but it is not required, the PC's may try to invoke the NPC's sense of duty or moral justice instead of cash. If the PC's offer to compensate the NPC with something equal to the NPC's price, then they get an automatic success. If it is at least half the value accepted the PC's get a +2 on their roll. Note if bribery is used, this is a success is considered an opening bid, the next stage will involve the NPC trying to get more.

Applicable Skills:

Diplomacy - Will DC: This is the typical skill used. It represents an honest approach. This does not mean full disclosure, just not direct deception. If there is nothing in it for the NPC assign a modifier of -2. If it is slightly detrimental to the NPC assign a -4.

Bluff - Insight DC: Use this if they are deceiving the NPC as to the intent of their actions.

Intimidation - Insight DC: use this if the PC's try use fear to manipulate the NPC.

Success: The PC's get a plus one on their next skill check. The players proceed to stage 4.

Failure: The PC's are told that the task is not worth the trouble. The players will have to overcome the rejection of the subject. A third failure ends with the subject having not bad feelings with the PC's but will wait at least a week before discussing the issue again.

Stage 4: Offers and counter offers

The subject should ask for additional compensation for the favor, the price should be worth at least twice as much as actual tasks price. Passing this level is worth 2 successes.

If the PC's don't want to pay the price, or if they want to reduce it, they can make a counter offer. A counter offer of half the asked price the PCs get a -2 modifier on their rolls, any lower counter offers will result in a -4 modifier.

Applicable Skills:

Diplomacy - Will DC – counter offer modifier: This is the typical skill used. It represents an honest approach. This does not mean full disclosure, just not direct deception. Weak reasons for not accepting the price will adversely affect the roll also. Good reasons (I don’t have the money, or I can’t do it) have no modifier-2 for Ok reason, -4 for a bad reason (like it would be inconvenient). Remember the reason must be honest, if not use bluff.

Bluff - Insight DC– counter offer modifier: Use this if they are deceiving the NPC as to the intent of their actions.

Intimidation - Insight DC– counter offer modifier: use this if the PC's try use fear to manipulate the NPC.

Success:

If this is the first stage 4 success: reduce the requested price by half. If this new price is accepted then the PCs move to stage 5 (which adds two successes to the skill challenge). The PCs may attempt a final counter offer and attempt stage 4 again. An additional -2 modifier will be added to the next stage 4 die roll.

If this is the second stage 4 success: If it is the second stage two success, the NPC accepts the PC’s counter offer. Move to Stage 5(which adds two successes to the skill challenge).

Failure: The price of the request stays. If intimidation was used the price of the favor goes up by half. The failure is counted against the skill challenge. The PCs have the option of accepting the offer to move to stage 5 (which adds two successes to the skill challenge), if not the PCs stay in stage 4. If the PCs fail for the third time the price gets doubled from its current value and they are given a choice of take it or leave it. If the PC's decline the skill challenge ends, if they accept, the last failure is not counted against the skill challenge. Move to stage 5(which adds two successes to the skill challenge).

Stage 5: Lasting Impressions.

This is just like the first stage. All of the players are asked to describe how they are presenting themselves. Pick a skill check that exemplifies the attributes the player wants to present. This is a group check. Tally up the wins and fails if the group gets at least 50% successes vs. Will DC, then the party gets a success.

Applicable skills: Various.

DC: Will DC

Success: The Subject is pleased and will give the PC's a +1 on all further skill checks in the future.

Failure: Subject is Ok with the deal, no bonus given. If it is the third failure the NPC is quietly upset with the deal and will renege on the deal after the PC's have left. The PC's will suffer a -1 on all further interactions with the subject.


Secondary Skills (can be used anytime):

Insight: Use this skill to determine the NPCs personality.

DC: Insight DC

Success: You gain knowledge about how the subject thinks this will help you with a +1 to all skill checks throughout the skill challenge. This does not advance you to another stage; it does not count as a success in the skill challenge.

Failure: This counts as a failure against the skill challenge. If this is the third failure, the subject feels that you are prying too much and are trying to manipulate him/her.

History: Roll to figure out if the NPCs ancestry, public record, or any other sort of civilized record keeping could help you either build rapport, or otherwise gain greater control of the subject.

DC: Fame DC

Success: You recall a bit of information that can help you in your negotiations. Once this encounter on a failed roll, you may opt to add a +4 to the skill roll. If this surpasses the DC, the check passes.

Failure: This counts as a failure against the skill challenge. If this is the third failure, the subject feels that you are not paying attention as you draw a blank while trying to recall anything that will help.

Thievery : A true rogue does not let negotiations get in the way of gathering information. If the situation allows, a PC may attempt to lift an object or item from the local surroundings during negotiations.

DC: Perception DC

Success: You locate a bit of key information from an item in the immediate location. This can help you in your negotiations. Once time this encounter on any failed roll, you may opt to substitute a bluff check with a +4 modifier to the skill roll. If this surpasses the DC, the check passes.

Failure: This counts as a two failures against the skill challenge. If this is the third or fourth failure, the subject catches the PC in the act and kicks the PC's out. All further skill checks involving the subject will be at -4 permanently. The skill challenge ends.

Streetwise: This represents trying to embarrass the NPC with secret info. This is a secret roll made by the DM.

DC: Extortion DC

Success: If the NPC has a dark secret the players feel that they have enough dirt on the NPC to aid an intimidation attempt. All future intimidation rolls gain the dark secret bonus if they choose to use the information. If the NPC does not have a dark secret tell the players so. This does not count as a success in the skill challenge.

Failure: You feel that you have enough dirt on the NPC to aid an intimidation attempt. All future intimidation rolls will have a -2 modifier until the end of the encounter if this information is revealed. This does not count as a failure in the skill challenge.

Monday, June 15, 2009

Skill Challenge Musings

The skill challenge system as presented in the DMG is flawed. It is flawed enough to have been aggressively updated (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/updates). The official errata essentially removed the turn based aspect of the system which plants it a bit more securely into the role playing aspect of the game. I think that this change really helped the system as a whole but it had some unfortunate side effects.

The problem is that, with the new rules, the examples in the DMG are revealed to be very static and dull. The original system relied on the idea that characters will have very different skill sets, and as such, the skill choices of the ranger, the paladin, and the rogue will be quite different. The different rolls would theoretically help the narrative stay lively and entertaining. However it did not always work that way since players could always opt to aid another or not do anything at all. So forcing players to take turns broke the players out of a role playing mindset, while not providing much in return.

Using the new rules encourages the players to elect on PC to do all the rolling with the best skill trained upon the lowest DC! While it seems like a great idea for the players,since they would want to make sure they win. The problem is that skill challenges get boring really fast that way. I think that the most important factor in a skill challenge is that they should be allow/force a group to do different things each and every round. A skill challenge that can be won, by rolling a diplomacy check every single time, is the equivalent to a knife fight with an orc in a 5x10 room. It can be considered an encounter, but it sucks.

What we need to do is shift the burden of enforcing variety into the skill challenge mechanics itself. In his DDI articles (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/welcome) Mike Mearls creates one heck of a challenge in the Real skill challenge article. It is huge, it changes as the players progress, and even combat can break out! It is a spectacle of a skill challenge! It is something that you can base an entire play session upon. And while I think that it is a great example of what a skill challenge can be, it feels too big for common usage.

The Mike's other DDI articles focus on social challenges. These are munch more simple, in order to encourage the use of a variety of skills, the challenges limit the number of times you can use a skill, or they increase the target DC's each time the skill is used. As an aside, I think the Haggle skill challenge is the best of the examples, I hope the DMG2 will include lots of skill challenges like this, useful utilities to spice up everyday play.

Another important factor is progress, the players need to feel that they are getting somewhere, and each success should bring them closer to that goal. This concept of progress can give a great narrative reason as to why some skills checks are now not applicable anymore. So in my mind progress and variety help each other make a fun skill challenge.

Finally levels of success is something that early skill challenges don't provide. These skill challenges had success and failure sections of text. I view it more as a results section. I think every success should provide something, and every failure should have repercussions. Adding these shades of grey makes the skill challenge feel more natural.

Next week I hope to have a skill challenge posted up here. I want to experiment with a tree structure. The idea is that a tree structure will combine all the elements I feel need to have in a skill challenge. Progress, variety, and levels of success. We shall see how that all works out.

Sunday, June 7, 2009

Links to Skill Challenge info

I have been listening to the several podcasts concerning skill challenges lately and skill challenges are now on da' brain. Skill challenges are a great idea, but as written in the DMG, it is suffering from a few issues. They improved on them a bit with errata but to me they are still a bit dodgey. On the official D&D podcast Mike Mearls himself states that the mechanic begins to break down with any but the most simple of challenges.

So far I have run only one skill challenge, and it worked out pretty well, but I must admit it felt very foreign. Perhaps that is the biggest problem I have with skill challenges, is that I rely so heavily on my previous experiences to get me through, that when something new comes around the newness of the situation makes me feel that it is not "working". The ending of my one and only skill challenge was fun and memorable and thinking back on it I think it worked out better than any previous chase scene I have run in D&D(one reason might be because I can't recall too many chase scenes I have had in D&D before). But I feel there are things that can improved upon.

I had hoped to have here today a first pass at some changes for skill challenges. But I feel I need to seriously read ALL of Mike Mearls' articles on the subject before I start trying to "fix" something that might not be broken. Also there are a lot of other information about Skill Challenges out there already, and it would be important to make sure the thoughts I have don't duplicate others work, or at least give credit where credit is due.

So here is a list of what I have or am planning to read/listen to before I write my opinion on this large subject.

Podcasts:
Check out the podcast from the man himself Mike Mearls
Podcast 4/29 - I think this gives a good overview of the issues with Skill challenges, and Mike Mearls' latest word on how the mechanic is evolving.

Also Amorphous Blobs podcast was pretty informative too
Episode 32 and 33 are a great help.
Episode 32 is a great example of integrating the skill challenge into a roll-playing session without making it feel like combat. The skill challenge they run can give bonuses or drawbacks at each step of the way, they also encourage players to step up, setup skill challenges that allow the players narrative control. This is a bit old, but it is still good at getting your head into the concept.

Articles:
All of these require a DDI account, which means that if you have a DDI account you may have already read them, and if you do not, no can't. Bummer. But here is a list of all of the articles I need to read before I want to comment. I have glanced through most of them, but not with the proper mindset.
The Challenge of Skill Challenges
Rule #4
A Real Skill Challenge
Social Skill Challenges, Part 1
Social Skill Challenges, Part 2
Life During Wartime

Forums:
When 4E first came out EnWorld was buzzing with StalkerO's Obsidian Skill Challenge rules.
I had looked at these rules a while ago, for me it is a bit too much like a mini game rather than an extension to role playing. I may reread it after I have read through everthing else.

WOTC updates:
Make sure you get the latest updates from WOTC. Check out both DM Screen and DM's guide updates. If for no other reason to get the new DC's for improvised actions and thus skill challenges.


If anyone reading this knows of a good article about skill challenges, please let me know and I will update the list.

Update:
GameFiend from http://at-will.omnivangelist.net/ dropped me a note and mentioned that his site has many Skill Challenge related articles. I will be sure to check them out.

Sunday, May 31, 2009

Standardized improvisation

Using the DMG as a basis for improvised actions (pg42) I have put together a set of generic actions that I will allow my players to perform. While the idea of each of these powers come from imagining the game through the eyes of simulationist, I have crafted these powers with a streamlined game philosophy. I wanted to make it to where a player can use these powers often, with out it becoming a key component to their character. I wanted to avoid situations where a player might decide for instance to become "Mr. Sand Toss" where the PC kept sand on his person and used it every time.


One can imagine that the reason armies from the middle ages where not equip with sand bags was because once you loose the element of surprise, the trick does not work so well. A simulationist might tack on an attack penalty for each time this attack was used (that was my first draft), however that puts a burden on the players and the DM. Instead I have limited these actions to Encounter powers. Hopefully this will encourage their used without becoming absurd.


One thing you will notice is that they are all move actions. There are two reasons for this. One, I want the combat to end just as quickly as before, so I don't want the player to have to give up a turn of damage to do something fun. Also, I want to give players something to do when if they use a second wind. Many of my players hold off using second wind because it is a standard action, these powers will allow them to participate in combat in a meaningful way while healing up.


To balance the advantage of it just being a move action I built in a risk factor. On a fail of 5 or more, something bad happens. I hope that this will keep the action exciting without limiting their use. We shall see.


Toss sand Universal Utility

With a quick move you throw sand into your enemy’s eyes.

Encounter

Move Action melee range

Target: one creature

Attack: Acrobatics vs Ref

Success: Subject is blinded until the end of its next turn. Subject is allowed one basic melee attack into your square after being blinded.

Fail: Subject is allowed one basic melee attack against you as a free action. On a fail of 5 or more, you also grant combat advantage to the target until the end of your next turn.


Cow Universal Utility

You lower your guard and with shear force of will you dominate your foe, causing him to doubt his actions.

Encounter

Move Action close blast 1

Target: one creature

Attack: Intimidate vs. Will

Success: Subject is Dazed until the end of its next turn.

Miss: On a fail of 5 or more, subject is allowed one basic melee attack against you as a free action and you also grant combat advantage to the target until the end of your next turn.


Unbalance Universal Utility

Your aggressive surge then quick pull back has unbalanced your opponent.

Encounter

Move Action melee range

Target: one creature

Attack: Athletics vs. Fort or Acrobatics vs Ref

Success: Subject is at -2 to all attacks until the end of their next turn.

Miss:On a fail of 5 or more, subject is allowed one basic melee attack against you as a free action and you also grant combat advantage to the target until the end of your next turn.


Arcane manipulation Universal Utility

Pushing yourself to the limit you unleash more power than the creators of your next spell ever imagined.

Encounter

Move Action

Target: self

Attack: Arcane vs DC Medium

Success: On any successful attack with the next arcane or divine power that you perform before the end of your turn, one and only one target of your choosing will receive a -2 penalty on all attack rolls until the end of their next turn.

Miss: On a fail of 5 or more, you loose a healing surge. If you are out of healing surges, you loose an amount of hitpoints equal to the strength of your healing surge.

Thursday, May 28, 2009

Welcome

Thanks for stopping by. This blog is mostly for me so I can organize my thoughts on a few ideas I have about Dungeons and Dragons (4E). Most likely the first time I write up on a new house rule, it will not have been tested in actual play, but rather it is my first best guess on how the system should work.

For the most part I like to focus on giving DMs and players options and think less about simulation rules that can govern and thus limit player options. For instance you will see little ideas concerning encumbrance, but many ideas about extra things PC's can do with skill checks, or little things I do to try to streamline the game, and keep up the fun.

At the moment I am working on a set of actions that a PC can use to add a little spice into combat. I hope to have it done by the end of the month, wish me luck.

Friday, May 22, 2009

Permission to think freely!

Dungeons and Dragons 4E is emphasizing the idea that interactive and dynamic environments should be just as important in combat as the creatures you are fighting. You can see WotC's new design philosophy in action in now free module of the Keep on the Shadowfell (this link will take you to where you can download it http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4dnd/dndtestdrive).

Sometimes the environment is the focus of the entire encounter, such as a fight taking place on rickety scaffolding (Area 3), or dark caves with many small tunnels only the opponents can use to their advantage (Area 10). Other encounters while they are not dominated by one large environmental theme include large obvious interactive items like spiked pits (Area 1), fire pits, and open iron maidens (Area 2).

The large obvious interactive items often do get used by my group but I rarely get requests for actions in normal rooms. Page 42 of the Dungeon Masters guide is a great reference guide for the GM to handle player requests that are not included in the standard rules. To me, this one page shows provides the mechanics for the single most important mindset needed for a DM, “Say yes!”. Unfortunately, I find that my players rarely choose to do much of anything aside from the rules that are printed on their character sheet.

There are many reasons for this, but I think the main reason is that the character sheets contain so much player data, that the idea that they can ignore the page and think up their own move has a hard time coming into play when death is on the line. Virtual death that is.

So my current solution is to print out a blank power card for each player and fill it in with the following.

Go Wild Universal Utility
Desperate times call for desperate measures.
At - Will
Any Action
Target: any
Attack: any
Success: Something close to what you want to happen will be done
Miss; Depending on how much you desperate of a move you made, there might be consequences on a failure.

I’ll let you know how it works out. Of course we have yet to schedule our next game, so feedback might take a bit. If anyone seeing this likes it and tries it out, let me know how it worked out for you.